Get real! Player for player you're not in the same league at the moment! Wellens or Tomkins? Finch or Hohaia? Your pack, Roby and Soliola (when he's in the pack) aside, is distinctly second rate. Sure, good coaching makes a big difference; something I pointed out in a thread on this very board when, after the first round of matches, you were all gloating about what a mistake 'The Ape' was going to be and how Wigan were looking at a swift decline. Top of the league and in the semi-final of the Challenge cup. Not bad for a 'mistake' eh? Some of you desreve to be eating humble pie right now...





A serious question for you now. Are you really that blind that you think your current team is capable of playing our structures? Wellens isn't quick, inventive or elusive enough, Your pack isn't aggressive enough and your halves aren't capable of controlling a game. One more question. Are you seriously suggesting that Tony Smith, a coach who has been a success and won trophies at several sides isn't capable of putting structures in place that would allow them to be top of the league (er....a bit like he did last year for example) if the players were up to it? The bottom line is that Warrington aren't at the top this season because they are too reliant on aging, injury prone players, specifically Lee Briers, Adrian Morley and Brett Hodgeson. They're still capable of turning in good performances...just not as regularly as they'd need to to be top of the table currently.



You say you aren't taking anything away from Wigan but, in fact, that's exactly what yoy ARE trying to do by suggesting that you'd be top of the league if you played with our structures. If it was that simple why have successive coaches been able to get you playing that way? The simple truth is that you aren't as good a team as Wigan at them moment. Just as we weren't as good as the dominant Saints team of a few years ago. Or was that just because we weren't playing the right structures too and not because you had the better team?

Great post!

not to take away from a good post, but didnt maguire take the same team, add deacon, and dominate the league?

Prescott has been just as good as Mossop so far this year although they have slightly different playing styles. Mossop has a better work rate but Prescott is harder to bring down and a much better ball player. Prescott is also more important in Wigan's attacking moves and more likely to put players through gaps. I'd take both of them over LMS, Laffranchi, Perry etc.

Ithankyew!

Based on player ability/talent and not current form (which is all you'll be using to judge on naturally but which would be criminally unfair given our respective current coaching situations):



1. Tompkins

2. Richards*

3. Wheeler

4. Carmont*

5. Meli

6. Finch

7. Lomax (not a #7 but would need to be in my team somewhere and Finch would make him 10x more effective there)

8. La Frank

9. Roby

10. TP

11. Soliola

12. Hock

13. O'Loughlin

14. Mossop

15. Clough **

16. Wilkin

17. Hohaia ***



* Both look past their best, especially Richards, so you can have Charnley and Goulding instead if you want. Shenton should probably feature ahead of Goulding on the talent/ability scale, but has been so disappointing for Saints so far that I just can't justify it.



** Clough has admittedly been **** for 2 years but I'm still hopeful he'll reignite with a decent coach.



*** OK, OK I'm joking... Leuluai



I make that a 9-8 Saints win (10-7 if you still hold out any hope of Shenton coming good, 11-6 in the ever increasingly unlikely event that Perry isn't washed up now), no 3 or 4 man holding down and ground-writhing required.



And no McIlorum instead of Roby

im not sure thats a good way to analyse as surely player ability/talent should be apparent regardless of coaching should it not?

Don't be ridiculous - let me start coaching Wigan and I'll have them all looking like a bunch of National League donkeys in no time.

Indeed. Which is why I say good coaching DOES make a difference. However you can't train a donkey to win the Derby (no pun intended!

). The simple fact is that Saints, for the reasons I posted, aren't currently a good enough side to play the structures Wigan play and to suggest, as the original poster did, that if they did they'd be top of the league is disingenious. He knows better, I'm sure. As many posters on here know, I'm not one of life's gloaters. I came on here to read a Saints perspective of today's game. I wouldn't have commented normally, but the post was nonsense and demanded a response.

This is the most one eyed comment I have seen and that's from a Leeds fan!!

Your are either talking out of your Harris or taking the mick.

Roby is the best hooker in the league by far. Mclorum is ok but nowhere near the class of roby.

i agree that a coach can be rubbish and can coach players to be rubbish, but i think robys tackling wouldnt be coached out of him, nor could a kicking game be coached into lomaxs nal over any period under years.

edit not meant as an insult to lomax, just that his kicking game needs working on.

I've probably not put it across very well but I'm not saying player for player we're better than you, I agree that in that aspect you are ahead of us at the moment. What I am saying is that it's your structures that set you apart from everybody else and that if other teams worked with those structures and you worked with a different teams structures they'd probably swap around. It's your structures that make you so good.