You should know by now the yardstick is an appearance in the Grand Final which is zero at the moment after 14 years of trying.

Think the Wire might manage to get there this year but might be a failed one if too much emphasise is put on the importance on winning the CC.

I think the yardstick is winning the GF. I have stated many times, it is no coincidence that a GF/CC double hasn't been achieved for a fair while.

As I would say Perry has been our form forward, hence the debate.

winning the GF is the yardstick. Not appearing in it.

Well Saints can cover both angles of viewpoint winning it or appearance. Obviously from some wire fans perspective winning it 4 times in the past has far less significance on winning it once some time in the future.

What the **** has that got to do with anything? Warrington are a class apart from Saints at the moment and only a fool could argue otherwise. Our only hope of beating you in the playoffs is if you freeze again.



The point [iactually[/i being made is simply that, in my opinion, our starting 10 forwards are marginally superior to yours. Not by much, but marginally. This is evidenced by the fact that we are likely to finish comfortably 3rd and at absolute bare minimum 4th despite having no halves, no gameplan besides barge x 5 + aimless kick, no kicking game and a barely adequate 3/4 line - our pack has carried us to that position by more or less exclusively one-up, one-man rugby the whole season and beaten everyone doing so except for you and the Pies. If that doesn't prove the strength of our pack as a unit then I struggle to see what would...

I wonder why you would say that?





Perhaps that amongst other bliningly obvious facts, you have neither won it nor been in it





Next you will be advising us that the pope is a christian and that bears go to the toilet in wooded areas.

Your attmept at subterfuge is poor.

First loser, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8362729th, still win nothing.

I'm sorry. Are you drunk?

Sorry, sorry, I misread it.



I didn't realise you were talking about Wire.



Apologies.

The point some are making is we have won it, 4 times indeed. Wire are yet to even feature.

Because we were a club on the brink for a sizable amount of superleague, mid table for another and only really been contenders since 2010, not because we are bottlers but because we simply were not good enough to compete with the top 4-5 teams in the league, remember you buying players like Sculthorpe and Fozzard of us, and losing quality players like Harris to Leeds.



Bottlers is a myth, the majority of games we have played in the playoffs we've always been the bookies underdogs, only one i think we went into favourite was last year.



Ateotd though, you played an extra game for the same reward, bugger all, and 5 losing finals is the same as not being in them.