First off, let me say I am a fan of Watkins, and Moon at Leeds, both are quality centres but I've got to come out and set the marker down



Lets see what the stats say about Cudjoe v Watkins



8 tries v 14

13 try assists v 7

8.1m v 7.8m av gain

29 v 23 offloads

73 v 52 tackle busts

12 v 16 clean breaks

507 tackles v 273

31 misses v 32

17 errors v 23

81 marker tackles v 47



So 10 stats

8/2 to Cudjoe



Cudjoe is better by every measure than Watkins and after watching Cudjoe since he debued for the giants has developed into a very very classy centre

Agree Code, but no one seems to appreciate him fully, maybe cos he isn't a media darling but we know his class !

Well clearly not. As your own hand picked stats show. Could I also ask why you picked those stats particularly? Is there a reason to judge the quality of a centre by the number of marker tackles? Isn't the where, when and how of an offload infinitely more important than how many there are?



Another few stats for you.Cudjoe is a full three years older than Watkins and Cudjoe has played more games.

here we go again..............

Looking at that the two are damn close, no doubt - with Cudjoe edging it at the moment with his defensive workload (although as Watkins has been at fullback and injured a fair bit, that makes sense).



All it says to me is that they should be England's 3&4 at the end of the year, with Cudjoe marking Inglis.

I stopped picking stats because Cudjoe remained ahead - I kept going past the first 5 to try and see of Watkins gained some ground back

You seem to forget Jack Reed if fit will be in at No 3 He is way the best English centre at the moment & has held his own against Inglis & Morris this season.

I would take Watkins over Cudjoe every single day of the week.

Then you're a fool who will take gilt over gold

I don't want to be picky, but without the vital stat [igames played[/i, the above is only a part story.

No you didn’t. You could have looked at metres per game, carries per game, to see things like workload. You didn’t. You did look at marker tackles though which is nigh on the dumbest measure of quality centre play I have heard yet, and forgot to pro-rata thsoe stats to take into account number of games played.



You also neglect to mention that Watkins has not only filled in at fullback, but also played inside such wing luminaries as Vickery and Duckworth, he has only played inside his regular wing partner 7 times this year.

There's a million and one reasons stats can't be trusted to compare centres. The only position I really look at these sort of stats for is a prop to see their effective go forward.



For instance, Cudjoe has made a lot more tackles. Apart from the fact that he's apparently played more games, is that what a centre's really there for? He may have made so many tackles because he defends inside Brough and the opposition target this area a lot to try and wear Danny out, causing extra work for Cudjoe. On the flip side, since Sinfield is a relatively robust defender for a half, but not as mobile as Watkins, do they buck the trend of the halfback defending the centre channel and have Sinfield inside Watkins, closer to the ruck where the extra work is.



You can just dump stats on the desk and say "Look, Cudjoe is higher here and lower here, he must be better.", especially when, as I've said, a lot of them are cumulative figures and you haven't mentioned the games (at centre) played.



I know Watkins has missed a number of games injured - what if the games he missed were the easy fixtures against teams that Cudjoe ripped it up against? (similarly, these could work the other way and he could have missed all the hard games).



Missed tackles is obviously an important stat, but it doesn't take a missed tackle for a centre to completely screw up a defensive line. Against hull KR, Watkins essentially manufacturerd a break for the Robins by moving up too fast on Dobson (IIRC) leaving a massive hole for the player inside to go through.



Lies, damn lies....



Tell me these stats for the two players



Average Tries per game

Average Try assists per game

Average Clean Breaks per game

Average Tackle Busts per game

Average Clean Breaks by their winger each



Average errors per game

Average missed tackles per game



These would be a lot more descriptive of who was the better centre, but would still need a healthy dose of interpretation by someone who'd actually watched them to tell us who the better centre is.