Hurrah, some common sense.

Well said Cruncher.



Any chance of making that a sticky at the top of the board?

The only thing I am slightly dubious of is the duty of care line that in my opinion may come back to bite us on the behind.



Obviously there has to be investigation into the fitness and suitability of a player but i do think that not making a move for Tronc or O'Meley may prove to be a mistake, only time will tell though i guess.

I agree. As I said, or at least intimated, one of the things I think we've handled badly has been our search for a new prop.



Time will tell on that.

A poster on the other forum has quoted Ian Lenagan saying to him he wants instant success at Wigan. Is this pathetic as well?



My sole issue with Ian Lenagan currently is the way he has dealt with the prop forward situation. We have needed to strengthen in this area for the last two years and we have failed to do so. We've missed Carl Webb - not all IL's fault but I do not see why we could not have had a back up plan should the inevitable happen and him not get a visa?



I am irritated when we keep missing out on players and clubs keep on strengthening. Wakefield Wildcats signing Tronc and Hull FC signing Mark O'Meley. Jason Ryles moving to Les Catalans last year and Gareth Carvell moving to Warrington. We continue to miss out on that one signing that will make a massive difference to this team. We're not far off being a very class outfit but we are constantly let down each year by the inadequate recruitment to bring in a top draw prop. Each season we are told next year, next year, next year. When do we draw a line to this and say - right that is it let's get us a top prop forward that we so desperately need!



I don't want mass amount of signings each year and I agree with some points other posters make about patience and build your side around your young players but we need to recognise that this can't be done without the class and experience of top players to help the young lads along. Leeds have it with Danny Buderus, Brent Webb, Ali Lauititi etc and Saints have them with Tony Puletua, Matt Gidley etc





So if by being disappointed in having another season without the prop forward we need and the loss of Gareth Hock and (possibly) Phil Bailey and not replacing them taking us backwards means I am being unfair to Ian Lenagan and impatient - then I apologise.

I agree with most of what else you say in your post but the above is IMO a bit too simplistic in how it lambastes the previous administration.



I don't think anyone wants to go back to that style of leadership but IL's style isn't perfect either IMO. Mistakes have been made IMO over the way Higham was treated and how the coaching issue has been handled. I don't think the "we don't know what is going on behind the scenes" excuse is a good enough excuse.



As to Mo signing players we certainly did sign some players on big money but they were not expected to fail. If Fielden and DV had lived up to their billings there would be no complaints.



It is very easy to point to players like these to take pot shots at the previous administration but do you honestly think they signed them because they thought they would play like they did? Hindsight is a wonderful thing because it gives you 20:20 vision.



As AJ pointed out Mo signed plenty of other overseas players who were great players.



I would go further and say when we got done on the salary cap for renegotiating the contracts to allow us to sign Fielden Mo and the club was hard done by. Doing what he did with the contracts was and is allowed in the NRL so why the RFL decided to act differently is the interesting question. IMO the reason we got done on a subjective view of this not being in the spirit of the cap was the fuss and the press stirred up by certain other clubs. Typical RFL who make it up as they go along. Had common sense prevailed it would have been a master stroke of administration of getting in a prop who went long way to help save us from relegation while sticking within the salary cap. As it is even Wigan fans will use this to have a go at him because it is convenient.



I am happy to believe for now that IL is running the club in a way he considers in its best interests but whether people want to admit it or not, so did Mo.



It is going to be interesting to see how things progress over the next few years but when IL says we won't be signing anyone we are basically going into next season with the same side that lost 11 games this. Also when he says we will only sign world class overseas players the season after signing two distinctly average overseas players , then signs none for 2010 is it any wonder there is some skepticism developing? Actions speak louder than words and at the moment we are a bit short on the action.



There may be good reasons in the short term not to sign these world class players and stick with what we have got (though he did say 2010 was the year he would be free to act just after he arrived) but this has got to be a short term thing because good though our youth system is I doubt it is capable of producing enough top class players to make Wigan a success on its own.



Dave

I'm right behind this post and Crunchers great one too. If I were IL and brought the club of my dreams clearly with a smart business head wanting to get the finances sorted so we build a better deeper squad, i would be distraught at some of the posts on here of late.



Whether you like IL, Noble, fielden or the late Mathers, you have to agree not one of them is not trying 100%. Some might not be clever enough, talented enough, fit enough or full of confidence but some of the irrational things written on here will do nothing apart from demote the people trying (badly or not) to lift this club back to where it was.



I for one think IL is the owner we need and I hope he stays for years and years. Noble to date has done a lot for the future of this cluband Fielden, a proud man clearly needs support and wants to be backed. he knows full well he is not performing and the crowds are not on his side, but have you ever seen him not try?



As it stands there are some posters (who I will not name but youy know who you are) who never say anything positive to the point they seem to only enjoy pointing out the failings.



Drives me nuts.

I think IL is biding his time. His hands or going to be tied somewhat with signings he didn't make on wages he probably wouldn't have given out.



With the cap space he's had i think he's done a good job so far. Yes he's not brought in any WORLD CLASS players but what he has brought in has not been any worse than what we already had.. So in that respect we've not gone backwards.



I think it wont be until the end of next season until he'll have a lot of cap space to play around with until we'll see him really move in for some decent players. So the signings he's made have either been to improve the squad (Gleeson) or to maybe to take a risk on a new player (Phelps) if he knew he couldn't buy any top quality player for a few years, it would seem the perfect time to take a risk on certain players. Phelps seems to be turning out to be ok.

If we dont sign anyone for next season, how can anyone state the club won't have gone backwards in terms of a playing squad for 2010?



Bailey is the player all the youngsters look up to and Hock is the best second row in the competition.







Certainly not me, I have no axe to grind with IL long term, it just astounds me that Noble, Maurice, Players etc will all get flack but people are so keen to just accept what IL says. He hasnt imo given an acceptable reason for no signings for 2010.



That combined for the Noble issue would have caused this place to explode if Maurice/Whelan were still in place.

IL's hands are tied by the signings he DID make. Last season he signed Piggy and |Roberts on long term deals (and getting Roberts a year ealry was definitely an IL decision). This season Coley, TL, Phelps, Smith and Bailey (not sure about Carmont) are/were all off contract but most got re-signed.



If changes in playing staff were needed the only money you get free'd up is that coming from players off contract who you do not re-sign. So by re-signing the likes of Coley and TL what IL has done is eat up any money that was due to become free.



So it's not just big contracts previously agreed before he got here that is using up all the salary cap money but signings he has made including re-signing the players out of contract this year.



Now you may say it was obvious TL warranted a new deal but there is always plenty of debate over if he is good enough. An option was to let him go and use his wages to try and go for a better 7 but IL has chosen not to.



When discussing Roberts or Piggy the argument often put forward is they are better then what was here before. OK then, would Tronc or similar not be better than Coley? IL has chosen to stick with Coley.



So the point I am making is with the number of players out of contract added to Hock's wage being available, there was plenty of scope to change the side around but IL has chosen not to do so and therefore it is not because his hands were tied that we have the team we have but rather because he chose for us to have this team in 2010.



Dave

Personally i think we will be stronger next season than this even without any new faces purely down to how well some of the younger players have stepped up this season (although whether we would be strong enough to break the top two stranglehold is up for debate). Maybe we don't need to bring many/any in apart from maybe at prop although we still have 5 of those.