Historically it's harder to back up from a win than a loss in a final. I would be disappointed if we lose to Wigan, then Saints is a flip a coin match imo.

Wigan and Saints are better than us.

I think we'll finish 8th.

I haven't seen the new training facilities etc for myself, but by all accounts it is streets ahead of what we used to have. It's not just the money though, there is a different attitude towards player development these days.

Crikey,these accounts are in a mess?

What's interesting is Gentle after the match saying the team simply didn't follow the game plan even after he spoke to them at half time. We have player site Ellis, O'meley, lynch, whiting, Holdsworth. These are seasoned professionals, do they not have the mental capacity between then to talk to each other and the rest of the team on the pitch to say we're doing this wrong, stick to the plan and take it from there. Gentle can only do so much once they get on the pitch, but if they don't follow plan even have a half time team talk what can he do?

I tend to agree. Didn't see any sort of leadership out there yesterday, just a bunch of disparate individuals doing their own thing (mostly badly).

Ellis appeared to go off injured early on, that can't have helped.



The conditions ruined it for me - ok, wigan handled it better than we did, but we had the same problems in France with that wretched rhino ball.



Surely, the ball should be designed to stick to the hands like glue, not be as slippery as a wet bar of soap.

When Ellis went off we lost any chance of re-grouping. There doesn't appear to be anyone else capable of leading the side. In the semi final he was the talisman - although he did come back on in the final he wasn't right and had no impact.

I don't think the lack of attacking quality is just about the individuals on the pitch, it's about structure and we have none. It's what should be sorted on the training pitch but doesn't seem to be being done

I think you're probably right. 7th at best

It was damaged ribs, apparently, and he went off after only 14 minutes and was off the field for nearly half the match.